Talk:Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven

Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven is currently an Albums good article nominee. Nominated by Lazman321 (talk) at 19:46, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

An editor has placed this article on hold to allow improvements to be made to satisfy the good article criteria. Recommendations have been left on the review page, and editors have seven days to address these issues. Improvements made in this period will influence the reviewer's decision whether or not to list the article as a good article.

Short description: 2000 studio album by Godspeed You! Black Emperor

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was no consensus. @harej 00:18, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven → Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven! — Discogs, MusicBrainz, Rate Your Music, and the official site spell it that way. ≤ ^alvareo [speak to me] ≥ 02:01, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. — WP:TITLE#Music states "Do not replicate stylized typography in logos and album art, though a redirect may be appropriate (for example, KoЯn redirects to Korn)."
—

V = I * R

(talk) 08:46, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It would be convenient if you pointed out the stylized typography, because I don't see any. ≤ ^alvareo [speak to me] ≥ 20:43, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Yr." in place of "Your", and the inclusion of an exclamation point at the end, are both stylization.
—

V = I * R

(talk) 02:29, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not really sure that a shortened word and punctuation marks should be considered stylized typography. Note they cite an inclusion of a Cyrillic character as typography stylization, not punctuation marks nor word shortening. ≤ ^alvareo [speak to me] ≥ 03:59, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The quoted portion is part of a larger series of guidelines, and so it is intentionally succinct. The whole of WP:NC, as well as WP:UE and their supporting guidelines all speak against using stylization. There are exceptions to the guidance, and more could be made, but I don't see any reason for an exception being outlined here, and I don't see a convincing one as being likely. There may be many sources which do use the stylized version, but to quote the opening of WP:NC: "The names of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors, and for a general audience over specialists." Fans of the band (specialists) may be quite familiar with the stylized version of the name, but someone who has never heard of the band (general audience) is not likely to recognize the abbreviated name.
—

V = I * R

(talk) 04:18, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the reason behind those rules. People aren't going to search again to make sure it's the correct article. I could understand it if, for example, the album was in Arabian and thus, was much more widely known as its English translation. But this isn't the case. The case here is an exclamation mark and a shortened word. As simple as that. People won't have trouble recognising the album. The band's will should be over this rule in this case. ≤ ^alvareo [speak to me] ≥ 04:53, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There not really "rules", their guidelines which should be followed in order to facilitate ease of use, maintainability, and general consistency. The statement that "The band's will should be over this rule in this case." is absolutely against the "rules", however, as outlined in the verifiability core policy. This is one of the few hard and fast rules of Wikipedia, and it's there to protect the integrity of Wikipedia. It's tough to get your mind around in some cases, but it's vital nonetheless.
—

V = I * R

(talk) 05:40, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure the guidelines weren't made for being applied at changes so trivial like this one. ≤ ^alvareo [speak to me] ≥ 20:19, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support move. I don't think "Yr." counts as stylized typography. That guideline would apply to Slow Riot for New Zerø Kanada, though. Jafeluv (talk) 21:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. ≤ ^alvareo [speak to me] ≥ 00:21, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support: I prefer article titles to be as close as possible to the "official" name as possible without sacrificing the naming conventions. I think this would pass under them, but Slow Riot... wouldn't. Sceptre ^(talk) 19:40, 20 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but the page being discussed here is Lift Yr...., not Slow Riot... Why the weak support? ≤ ^alvareo [speak to me] ≥ 00:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: Per Ω. Also, regarding alvareo's website examples, Allmusic and Pitchfork spell it "Your". -- Noj r (talk) 07:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I give reliable sources, you give me Allmusic, known mistypers. ≤ ^alvareo [speak to me] ≥ 00:39, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

According to your logic, everyone who spells it "Your" is mistyping then. -- Noj r (talk) 19:19, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't mention such thing. If an album has a shortened word and an exclamation mark, and in some place they un-shorten the word and remove the exclamation mark, they're mistyping it. ≤ ^alvareo [speak to me] ≥ 04:53, 23 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support No excuse for misrepresentation here; the accurate title is not difficult to understand, nor aimed at specialists. Skomorokh 21:12, 21 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Album Title

Isn't the album called: Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven

"Yr." = "Your". http://cstrecords.com/html/cst012main.html

404 (probably because it was added in 2005, but still) and most reliable tagging sites (including MusicBrainz) list it as "Yr." Moving sometime unless I get any objections... (whee, first talk page comment. aren't i special?) Inf. Loop 11:21, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Label spells it full: http://www.cstrecords.com/cst012_release_info.html (Band B (talk) 21:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Official band website says it's Yr. - http://www.brainwashed.com/godspeed/music.html 71.202.75.102 (talk) 08:32, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So does Discogs, MusicBrainz and Rate Your Music. Note also the final exclamation mark in the album title. ≤ ^alvareo [speak to me] ≥ 01:41, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like the decision on a move has already been made, would just like to say that I'd support a move. Gershake (talk) 21:58, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Any names

Any names for the sampled voices? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.137.110.134 (talk) 20:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Barco AM/PM...isn't it Arco AM PM? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.83.245 (talk) 20:32, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The liner notes say Barco. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 06:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ravel's Bolero?

Is that quip really necessary? I'm removing it as it is not constructive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.53.251.171 (talk) 14:40, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Movement times

I'm relatively bothered by their inclusion, given how not only at no point are they officially indicated, but also the fact that the majority of them crossfade into each other. Sure, you could make out an approximate time, but saying "this movement lasts exactly this long" is pretending to be objective about something that is completely open to interpretation. 201.190.31.4 (talk) 16:03, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Theyre indicated in the vinyl with a diagram.

Unfortunately the times in the diagram are almost certainly off. This is of course WP:OR, I do not have a source, but it is apparent if you keep an eye on the time while listening that times don't line up right. I would say we should probably leave them out of the article for this reason. I do not think that it is OR to leave out fact that can be cited, but is somewhat clearly not true, esp when the source is not a reliable one (I believe the liner notes are too close to the article's subject to be a reliable source). And I just think it is best practice not to include "facts" that are not true. However it's not off by that much, and someone more experienced may have a better grasp on the policy. AquitaneHungerForce (talk) 21:42, 30 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely not. The only people who get to decide when the movements start and end IS the band themselves. If the liner notes said that World Police and Friendly Fire started 3 minutes before that composition actually begins in the music, then tough. The band decides when each movement falls. Healpa12 (talk) 03:30, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Lazman321 (talk · contribs) 19:46, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: LunaEclipse (talk · contribs) 19:17, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Picking this one up. I love GY!BE's music, and I'm happy this is at GAN. I'll get to this in the following days. 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ ^{(CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST)} 19:17, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Lede

The album consists of four 20-minute songs divided into internal movements. The music often consists of instrumental crescendos, with occasional use of field recordings. → The album consists of four 20-minute songs divided into movements, usually consisting of instrumental crescendos, with occasional use of field recordings.
- WL movements.
Recording was conducted in February 2000 in Chemical Sound Studios, Toronto, and was derived from the band's live performances and Menuk's experience in film-making studies. → Recording was conducted in February 2000 in Chemical Sound Studios, Toronto, and was derived from the band's live performances and leader Efrim Menuck's experience in film-making studies.
Packaging contains liner notes dedicating the album to prisoners, illustrating each of the movement's sound, and using William Schaff's artwork from the zine Notes to a Friend; Silently Listening No. 2. → Packaging contains liner notes dedicating the album to prisoners, which illustrate each of the movement's sound, alongside William Schaff's artwork from the zine Notes to a Friend; Silently Listening No. 2.
The album has received critical acclaim and has been listed on multiple year-end and decade-end lists. Could you clarify what elements of the album's music did professional critics like or dislike?

Background and composition

Godspeed You! Black Emperor is a Montreal band that formed in 1994; the band hails from the Canadian post-rock scene, with the band's label Constellation being a central part of the scene, though both Constellation founder Ian Ilavsky and Godspeed You! Black Emperor guitarist Efrim Menuck have stated that they see their music as more punk rock than post-rock. → Godspeed You! Black Emperor is a Montreal band formed in 1994; the band hails from the Canadian post-rock scene. The band's label Constellation plays a central role, although both founder Ian Ilavsky and Godspeed You! Black Emperor guitarist Efrim Menuck have stated they see their music as more punk rock than post-rock.
Their early work leading up to Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven "[came] across like an attempt to blend divinity and human folly atop the same sonic canvas," according to The A.V. Club's Andrew Paul, with the music conveying humanity's hopelessness and self-destruction. → According to The A.V. Club's Andrew Paul, their early work leading up to Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven "[came] across like an attempt to blend divinity and human folly atop the same sonic canvas," with the music conveying humanity's hopelessness and self-destruction.
I recommend adding an excerpt from the album to help readers understand its composition beyond the article's prose.
Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven is a post-rock album consisting of four 20-minute tracks divided into movements: "Storm", "Static", "Sleep", and "Antennas to Heaven". Godspeed You! Black Emperor recorded the album in Chemical Sound Studios, Toronto, in nine days in February 2000 with Daryl Smith, using material drawn from the band's recent live performances. → Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven is a post-rock album consisting of four 20-minute tracks divided into movements: "Storm", "Static", "Sleep", and "Antennas to Heaven". Godspeed You! Black Emperor recorded the album in Chemical Sound Studios, Toronto, in nine days in February 2000 with Daryl Smith, using material drawn from the band's then-recent live performances.
The instrumentation involved string instruments, guitars, pianos, and static. Most of the album is instrumental, often consisting of crescendos from "slow and vaporous" music to "towering waves of sound" before dissipating.
- WL crescendos and static.
In a 2012 Guardian interview, the band collectively stated that, contrary to popular belief, their intent from the beginning was to create "heavy music, joyously" that acknowledged yet dismissed the bleakness of contemporary times. → In a 2012 interview from the Guardian, the band collectively stated their intent from the beginning was to create "heavy music, joyously" that acknowledged yet dismissed the bleakness of contemporary times, contrary to popular belief.
Jeanette Leech argued in Fearless: the Making of Post-Rock that Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven represented this ideal. → Jeanette Leech argued Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven represented this ideal in Fearless: the Making of Post-Rock.

Release and packaging

The typewritten liner notes jokingly refer to the band as "god's pee"; refer to the songs as “more awkward pirouettes in the general direction of hope + joy” and "a tentative stagger towards the pale&holy FADING light"; and dedicate the album to prisoners, alongside "quiet refusals, loud refusals, and sad refusals". → The typewritten liner notes jokingly refer to the band as "god's [sic] pee"; refer to the songs as “more awkward pirouettes in the general direction of hope [and] joy” and "a tentative stagger towards the pale [and] holy fading light"; and dedicate the album to prisoners, alongside "quiet refusals, loud refusals, and sad refusals."
The inner panels of the vinyl edition and a paper insert in the CD edition uses a diagram drawn by Menuk to illustrate the album's movements and sound. → The inner panels of the vinyl edition and a paper insert in the CD edition uses a diagram drawn by Menuck to illustrate the album's movements and sound.
The diagram denotes the time length and name of each movement, and uses gradients to represent the intensity of each part of a movement. → The diagram denotes the time length and name of each movement, and uses gradients to represent their intensity.
Packaging of the album contains artwork by William Schaff from a zine titled Notes to a Friend; Silently Listening No. 2, which dealt with Schaff's struggles as a young artist. → The album's packaging contains artwork by William Schaff from a zine titled Notes to a Friend; Silently Listening No. 2, which dealt with his struggles as a young artist.
Schaff first met Menuk at Hotel2Tango, bonding over their shared interests and themes of workers' plight. Later, after Schaff left behind some of his work at Hotel2Tango, Menuk approached Schaff for permission to use his work for the album. Schaff first met Menuk at Hotel2Tango, bonding over their shared interests and themes of workers' plight. Later, after he left behind some of his work at Hotel2Tango, Menuck approached him for permission to use his work for the album.
One image included in the packaging depicts a skull-faced Benjamin Franklin severing Schaff's hands with shears as Schaff is signing a lease, while another depicts Schaff, his wrists bandaged, witnessing skull-faced George Washington and Franklin waving a pantsuit in front of a withdrawn woman. → One image included in the packaging depicts Benjamin Franklin severing Schaff's hands with shears as he is signing a lease, while another depicts him with his wrists bandaged, witnessing George Washington and Franklin waving a pantsuit in front of a withdrawn woman.

Reception

Explain/clarify in the first paragraph what reviewers specifically liked with the album alongside the quotes.
Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven has also gained retrospective positive reviews. → Retrospectvely, critical reception of Lift Your Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven has remained positive.

Track listing

Time lengths of individual movements are taken from the official discography; times for each movement appear in the album's cover art, but those times are inaccurate. While the movements of the tracks are listed, the names of the four tracks that make up the album are unlisted on the CD. Is there any source supporting/verifying the fact that the timestamps for the movements are incorrect or the tracks being unlisted on the compact disk release?

Spotcheck

[5]: Y Statement is verified by the source.

[11]: ? How is Off Beat reliable?

[20]: Y Statement is verified by the source.

[23]: Y Reliable per WP:GUARDIAN. Statements here should be fine per WP:ABOUTSELF.

[24]: Y Statement is verified by the source.

[31]: Y AllMusic is only used for a review here, so it shouldn't be an issue (see WP:ALLMUSIC).

[46]: Y Pitchfork is reliable per WP:RSMUSIC.

[47]: Y Ditto.

[56]: Y Official Charts Company is reliable per WP:GOODCHARTS.

[9]: Y Statement is verified by the source.

Plagiarism

False positive from Earwig. Pass.

NPOV

What compromises this article's neutrality is the lack of negative reviews and/or qualities that critics disliked with the album. If there are no negative reviews, try examining the positive ones and find what the critic(s) considered a low point for the record.

Status

@Lazman321: I see you're busy with the Bejeweled FAC; I will put this nom on hold for the time being. Don't rush, there is no deadline on Wikipedia. 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ ^{(CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST)} 16:17, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]